Entrevista a Mateusz Lenart, director creativo de Bloober Team

Por Redacción Publicado el 09/10/2024

Charlamos con Lenart para repasar la trayectoria del estudio polaco que acaba de traernos el magnífico remake de "Silent Hill 2"

We are pleased to share with you the extensive interview we conducted with Mateusz Lenart, Creative Director and Lead Designer at Bloober Team, during the Celsius 232 in Avilés (Spain). After making a mark in horror video games with great titles such as “Layers of Fear”, “Observer”, “The Medium”, and “Blair Witch”, he has just released his latest work, the remake of “Silent Hill 2”.

Bloober Team’s early horror games, especially the “Layers of Fear” series, are often labeled as “Walking Simulators,” a genre that became popular after the success of “Dear Esther.” Many players, and even some media outlets, often use this term in a derogatory way. Does it bother you when people refer to your games as Walking Simulators?
Well, it depends on how you interpret that label. For some people, a “Walking Simulator” is a game where you just walk, look at things and that’s it. I couldn’t say our games lack gameplay. Indeed, the ones that come closest to that definition are the “Layers of Fear” games. The first “Layers of Fear” could be considered a pure “Walking Simulator,” where you experience what’s happening with almost no mechanics beyond picking up certain items and opening doors. But it’s not something that worries or bothers me. At Bloober Team, we’re not afraid of that label.
We knew we had to start with something more modest because if our first project had been a game like “The Medium,” it would’ve been a disaster. Too many mechanics to develop, too much technology, and a team that was too small to cover all the necessary areas. We would’ve had to hire a lot more people and learn too many techniques, and too quickly, to make a game like that. So, we decided to take things slowly. We focused on atmosphere, on creating something unique in the market to gain visibility. The gameplay, obviously, took a bit of a hit. I remember that in “Layers of Fear,” we only had one animator and one character designer. Even creating the first enemy, the “Wife,” was a challenge. Plus, it was our first 3D project using Unity. Later, with “Observer,” we switched to Unreal, which was a big step forward. We grew as a company, and we got enough money, confidence, and experience to expand. We also set up our own motion capture studio, which helped a lot. Now, we have a 10-year plan, but all thanks to doing things carefully and patiently, without rushing, which is a mistake many video game companies make. Step by step: first “Layers of Fear,” then “Observer,” which, while expanding the mechanics, still stayed within the “Walking Simulator” genre. Then came “The Medium,” with fixed cameras and a much more sophisticated design. Each new game expands on the technology of the previous one, always gradually. I want to stress this: we’re not afraid of the “Walking Simulator” label. We know where we come from and where we’re headed, so I don’t see it as a problem.

At Bloober Team, you seem to have a thing for using loops as a narrative device in psychological horror. We can find them in both “Layers of Fear” games, “Blair Witch,” and “Observer.” In these loops, the protagonists walk in circles through the same environment as it visually degrades with each iteration, which usually represents the character"s descent into madness. Why this fixation on designing loops?

That’s a very good question, and no one’s ever asked me that before. But the question is almost a kind of answer in itself, you know? Loops are, without a doubt, a great narrative tool to keep you on edge all the time because they make you feel trapped. You’re stuck in the same place, looking for clues, trying to find something to move forward, wanting to progress, but the game keeps you in that specific space. Loops became kind of a pattern for us, which obviously isn’t ideal in the long run. There came a point where we even joked about it, like: “Another project with some kind of loop?” It became a bit of an inside joke. But the technique and the idea work really well in horror games, so it’s fun to use them.

It"s certainly an effective technique, though also a risky one. Since these loops are scripted sequences, doesn’t it worry you that, with free camera control, players might miss key details by not looking in the right direction when the action triggers?

It depends on the situation. For example, in “Observer,” during one of the Dream Eaters chapters, the player enters a constant loop, and it gave us quite a bit of trouble because we assumed it would be super easy to understand what was going on. The puzzle seemed obvious. At first, you’re just walking around with no clues, and you find TVs turning on and off, showing you that you’ve returned to the same room. We started adding some visual hints in the environment around specific doors, creating a hidden pattern that indicated the way out of the loop, forcing the player to understand the design through the clues shown on the TVs. In the end, we had to simplify it in order for the player not to get stuck. In fact, if you don’t solve the puzzle, after several attempts, you exit the loop anyway.
There are many techniques. The one that works best is, obviously, to create environments simple enough that when something changes—whether it’s the lighting, color, or movement—it catches your eye and you focus on it. The simplest solution is often the best, but it’s not easy to assume what each player considers “simple.” Sometimes you think something is obvious, but then it turns out not to be.

Speaking of “Observer,” the mix of science fiction and horror works wonderfully, especially in the Dream Eater sequences you mentioned, like the disturbing mental hack of Helena Nowak. How did you manage to strike that balance in tone?

From the start, our main goal was to make everything feel raw and disturbing. I don’t know if you noticed, but every time Lazarski prepares to dig into the mind of a victim, he does it reluctantly, in a rough, almost violent way, reflecting how this process can affect people, like he’s crushing their skulls. In sci-fi movies, mind hacking is often portrayed as cleaner and more appealing, but here it’s intentionally uncomfortable. We wanted to make it clear to players that what they’re doing isn’t pleasant, fun, or exciting—it’s something horrific. The idea of exploring someone’s deepest fears isn’t especially original, but doing it from the perspective of an observer—someone with the ability and technology to do so—seemed fascinating to me. The protagonist can access other people’s minds and extract information, but it works both ways, so he’s vulnerable in that space as well.

Any references or influences?

There are some obvious influences, and others maybe not so much. The most evident is “Blade Runner,” and not just because our protagonist is Rutger Hauer (laughs). We leaned on the retro-futuristic aesthetic of Ridley Scott’s classic. Also, “Alien,” though not in such a direct way—the building is saturated with pipes, wires, and corrosion, but Giger’s artistic style in “Alien” carries a completely different meaning, more tied to his personal concerns, and even with some sexual connotations. In our case, my inspiration didn’t come so much from cyberpunk, but from certain small Asian towns where there are cables everywhere. I imagined a future that wasn’t spotless, like in many modern movies where everything seems in perfect order. Instead, I visualized a more chaotic setting where people pile electronic components on top of each other, and when the clutter becomes overwhelming, they try to cover it up with sophisticated digital imagery. When you enter the building, you’re greeted by holograms everywhere, creating a super futuristic atmosphere. But when the system fails, the whole façade collapses, revealing a grotesque network of wires—a filthy, unhealthy environment that exposes the true nature of this world, more akin to a slum than a technological utopia. I tried to bring this retro-futurism into a Polish reality, imagining a future for my country that strayed a bit from the norm—a future where you realize everything has gone wrong in every possible way. For the mind-hacking sequences, movies like “Johnny Mnemonic” and “The Matrix” were obvious influences.

Your games often revolve around the blending of two realities, whether through technology (“Observer”), witchcraft (“Blair Witch”), madness (“Layers of Fear”), clairvoyance (“The Medium”), or metaphysics (“Silent Hill 2”). Where does this interest in dualities come from? What do they represent to you?

I think the clearest example is “The Medium,” where we literally present a second world. Although, in my opinion, we all have a hidden side that we don’t openly show. This reality is crouching in our minds, and it’s only visible if you pay close attention. That’s why it’s important to explore and discover that deeper part, to squeeze our brains, so to speak, and bring it to light for examination. Another hidden side could also be that layer of madness we all share to some extent; in artists, like the character in “Layers of Fear,” it’s often thicker because they’re more passionate and sensitive. Or it could simply be the spiritual world we all talk about. Essentially, I think it encompasses anything you want to keep hidden. The two worlds in “The Medium” are a response to exactly that. It’s a game full of gray areas, where nothing is entirely black or white—a bit like life itself. Rarely do we meet people who are completely good or evil. We all have different reasons, motives, or perspectives that shape our value systems. Would you kill someone? No! But… what if that person were threatening your child’s life? Would that be a different perspective? Would it justify killing someone? The game is full of these crossroads. It’s something that really inspires us when creating this mix of realities. Especially in psychological horror, where it’s fascinating to delve into topics like fears, emotions, and mental disorders. These are additional layers you can incorporate into video games and build around.

In “The Medium,” you drew inspiration from the paintings of Polish artist Zdzisław Beksiński, one of the great masters of horror. Although many recent video games have paid homage to Beksiński, such as “A Plague Tale,” “Returnal,” or “Scorn,” the fact that Bloober Team is a Polish studio makes it even more significant. What can you tell us about your personal interest in Beksiński and the impact of his work on “The Medium”?

In Poland, Beksiński is a key figure for fans of the fantastic. In the U.S., he’s become extremely popular in recent years, but here in Poland, we’ve known and admired his work for a long time. For many artists, Beksiński has been a huge source of inspiration; his creativity is closely tied to ours.
You might not remember the short film “The Cathedral” by Tomasz Baginski, which was nominated for an Oscar in 2002—we drew a bit of inspiration from that as well, which in turn was inspired by Beksiński’s work. But let’s not get sidetracked. For me, like many artists, there was this desire to create something memorable, something that truly represented an alternate world. We wanted to combine Beksiński’s dark, copper-toned environments, rich in detail, with Poland’s bleak realism.
I was also inspired by the films of Roy Andersson, which share a cold, pale color palette—the Swedish aesthetic. So, we mixed Beksiński’s intense reds and oranges for “the other side” with Andersson’s grays and blues for the “real world.” The contrast turned out to be quite effective, especially when compared to “Stranger Things.” At first, I remember thinking, “Wow, no f*cking way,” since we started working on “The Medium” before we even knew about the Netflix series. Luckily, though, they ended up not being alike at all—in style, composition, or color treatment.

In the worldbuilding of “The Medium,” since we’re talking technical aspects, beyond the well-chosen color palette, the excellent rendering of characters, objects, and surfaces played a significant role. Considering how baroque, organic, and intricate Beksiński’s architecture is, it must have been quite a challenge to adapt it to 3D modeling and texturing.

Oh, definitely. Everything in the game had to feel very organic. We asked our artists to bring their A-game; specific skills were required to achieve that. It’s also a very costly process when done right. The building surfaces were particularly challenging; their organic structures had to be comprehensible to the player, and for that, they needed to offer a high level of detail. There couldn’t be too much visual noise—it was about finding the right balance. I think that was our biggest challenge. We wanted to include tons of detail, but we couldn’t overdo it, especially in the parts where there are two cameras rendering at the same time. The split screen looks great, but it cuts the rendering quality in half, so we had to balance everything carefully. Nowadays, technologies like Unreal’s Nanite make rendering complex geometries much easier, but back then, we relied on normal maps and other rudimentary techniques to simulate depth and relief. It was a real struggle to reach a satisfying visual finish. I think we spent half a year or more refining the lighting prototype until it felt right. Even within the concept art phase, I remember spending two or three months with one of the artists just to finish one design.
It was important for the environment to feel “familiar” to the player, but at the same time, it had to incorporate strong surreal elements. We wanted to transpose the real world into the game, so it was vital to be meticulous about how much to keep and how much to distort. One strategy we used was a layered system. I think it was a good solution. It’s like, so to speak, scraping the surface of the real world: first, you have the plaster, beneath it, the brick, if you keep scratching, you find the mesh, etc. Each layer is visible as you go deeper, and you feel that tension between them. Combined with the right lighting, that’s what made applying Beksiński’s style to the environment work. But yes, it was a huge challenge, especially for the reasons I mentioned earlier—creating these types of structures without going overboard. I can’t stress enough the importance of lighting, which played a crucial role. Good lighting can reveal more or less, and often, less is more (laughs). That’s how we approached the project.

“Blair Witch” was Bloober Team"s first game using a movie license. How did it affect the creative process? Did Lionsgate give you any guidelines, directions, or restrictions?

Well, fortunately, Lionsgate didn’t have to interfere too much because we already knew what we were dealing with. Of course, there were certain restrictions on what we could and couldn’t do, but overall, this franchise suited us well from a creative standpoint, because it has a fairly flexible and open story. The first movie is simple; we all know what it’s about—the witch in the woods, the legend, and all that. There weren’t many aspects of the lore we could break (laughs). We just had to maintain the style, but it was more of a personal matter of knowing how far we wanted to go—what would be enough or too much. We were clear, for example, that we didn’t want to have players shooting monsters, but we did want to add certain alternative combat elements, like using light, taking a bit of inspiration from mechanics in “Alan Wake.” In the forest, where you can’t kill the creatures, light becomes a crucial tool to repel or keep them at bay without directly fighting them.
Our goal was to maximize the potential of the franchise, and following some guidelines from Lionsgate, we aimed to create a game with a richer story than just another teenager walking into the woods and either dying or going crazy. We wanted to enrich the plot by bringing the protagonist’s memories or experiences into the game while staying within the franchise’s universe. The concept is pretty simple: a forest, a legend, and the witch—an entity that can read your mind, confuse you, or even alter space-time. For me, the distortion of time was one of the most interesting aspects of the game. We explored that idea through the video camera, the mechanics, and also narratively. There’s a point where the players aren’t sure what time they’re in—have they been in the woods for 10 years or just two days? What’s going on? You even end up talking to yourself—sorry for the spoiler (laughs)—with a future version of “you.” If you pay attention, your hands start looking more and more like Carver’s (the antagonist), until you eventually become him.

We can’t talk about “Blair Witch” without giving a special mention to the game’s star: Bullet the Dog. In “The Medium,” a dog also accompanies us briefly. Dogs are always a plus in horror games, and Bloober Team sets the example. Do you have dogs at home? Will we see dog companions in future Bloober Team games?

I love dogs, but I can’t have one at home because my wife is a cat person, and they don’t usually get along (laughs). We keep getting more cats, so the chances of having a dog are slim. Without a doubt, dogs are adorable creatures that can fit wonderfully into a game’s narrative, especially in the horror genre. They create a connection with the player, and while it’s not a human connection, it might even be more emotional. There’s a lot of potential in that type of bond. I can’t guarantee if we’ll use them again in the future—it depends on the idea and whether it fits with the game—but yes, they can definitely be a great narrative tool to get players emotionally involved.

It"s funny because in one of the endings of “Silent Hill 2”…

Yeah, yeah (laughs), everything that happens is the work of a dog. I can assure you that this ending is included in the remake. We"ve kept the original endings.

It has been 23 years since “Silent Hill 2.” For modern cinema, that time span means nothing, but in the world of video games, it represents an evolutionary leap in terms of technology and design. What variations and improvements can we expect in this remake regarding controls, exploration, combat mechanics, and gameplay in general?

From the very beginning, we knew we had to approach creating the remake in a very specific way. The story was something we didn’t want to change, as it’s the strongest and most iconic part of the original “Silent Hill 2”. However, from a gameplay perspective, the situation was a bit different. Twenty-three years is a long time in the gaming industry, and the mechanics were something we felt needed updating. Switching to a third-person camera was one of our first decisions during production, as we wanted to give players more control and freedom in exploration – we wanted the game to feel even more personal than it was in OG. In short, our goal was to preserve the original game’s feeling, atmosphere, and tone, while making significant improvements to the combat system, controls, and other gameplay elements.

And what about level design? Apparently, the game"s duration is three times longer.

It was the same approach when it came to level design. We didn’t want to cut any locations from the original game—instead, we aimed to expand on them. Now, players can explore areas that couldn’t be accessed before, and we wanted to make the most of that. In most cases, the layout of the locations needed to be adjusted to create a more engaging gameplay experience, and I’m particularly proud of this aspect of the game.
I think we succeeded in preserving the memory of the iconic places from the original while introducing new content and flow that will surprise even long-time fans of the series. That said, you can still expect the same story beats and key moments. In many cases, we recreated rooms and locations exactly as they were, but in others, we focused on capturing the memory of the place while subtly altering the surroundings.

"Silent Hill 2" is one of the best horror games of all time. After months of skepticism and hatred online, the remake seems to be receiving good reviews, even from the creator of the original SH2. However, it"s inevitable that there will be complaints among fans, whether because the game is different or because it resembles the original too much. How do you handle these kinds of reactions?

It’s natural for games like this to have a strong fanbase, and we understood that players would have strong opinions about the decisions we made in recreating their beloved game. It"s impossible to satisfy everyone. What"s most important to me is that we’re also fans of the series, and we didn’t want the game to stray too far from the original. At the same time, changes were inevitable, and I hope players find our approach satisfying.
Often, decisions that seem simple and obvious end up being unworkable or just don’t fit the style and mood of the game. Game developers can’t afford to focus on one thing without considering the bigger picture. Sometimes even small changes can negatively impact the game and make it unplayable.

What decision caused you the most headaches?

One of the hottest topics in this project was the combat system. James isn’t a skilled war veteran who should be powerful in combat—he’s an ordinary guy, someone who might struggle to handle a gun, let alone fight monsters. But we couldn’t make him completely incapable of fighting either, as that would frustrate players. Striking a balance between the feeling of the combat and its mechanics was challenging.
I can imagine some players will feel James isn’t agile or skilled enough, finding the combat stiff at times, while others may argue he’s too powerful given his character.
I believe we’ve found a good middle ground, focusing on unique enemy designs while giving players a limited arsenal of actions and weapons.

It must have been really tough to balance everything to ensure the remake seems both familiar and distinct.

The “Silent Hill 2” remake isn’t a direct copy of the original, but that was never our goal. It’s a reimagined version, created with love and nostalgia, for a new generation to experience the story and atmosphere that can’t be found anywhere else. I hope long-time fans will appreciate the attention to detail and the memories we"ve awakened. We at Bloober Team are just as eager as any other fans for the Silent Hill franchise to return. We want to relive those memories, and we’re proud to be a part of bringing them back.

What can you tell us about the mysterious "Project C"?

Unfortunately, not much. What I can say is that, at Bloober Team, we"ve gone through different stages throughout our history. We started as a small team, and then we had a sort of "second phase," if you will, when we began to focus on the horror genre, on environmental storytelling, and on psychological horror, with stories centered around decisions, emotions, and experience, but not so much on gameplay, and that’s something we wanted to change. Because everyone likes a playable video game, and we include ourselves in that group. That"s why "Silent Hill 2" is the first project of this third stage of Bloober Team, which has made us open up to combat-oriented games, while still keeping narrative at the core of our DNA. We wanted to include combat moments and more complex gameplay mechanics, which is why we also changed the camera to a third-person perspective, among other things. That was our plan, even if we hadn’t made the "Silent Hill 2" remake, because we love that kind of games.
So, our upcoming projects, including "Project C," will continue this trend: we want to expand gameplay mechanics, getting a bit closer to the "Survival Horror" formula, but always maintaining our strength in narrative, creating worlds that make players reflect on what"s happening, and feel absorbed by the story, imagery, and atmosphere. We want to move in that direction and reach a wider audience.

Thank you very much for your time and your answers, and good luck with your projects. Until next time.

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